Making my own watch

[Paul Loatman]

Paul, that is a fascinating device. And strange that I was about to start making a screw polishing jig, the kind used by Jere.

I'd much rather make something like this instead- it even polishes the rounds.

Could you post more pictures of it? I'm thinking a foot treadle powered version could be nice.

The kind that Jere uses is the most common type, i was also considering making one of those, but when i found this i just had to have it. I imagine it works a bit faster than hand held type.

I'll post some more pictures for you later tonight, but in the mean time look at this video.

It's Steffen Pahlow showing how the tool works, his is the exact same as mine, also by Lorch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYamLPIrvr8

Hi. This tool is really usefull, but not so rare as said.
Boley made these type of tool in a bigger assortment including a D lathe bed mount.

(PS: Sorry for my english which is not so precise as my job... )

Hello,

In the video i posted above, he has a D-bed lathe mounted polisher, i think that's the one you're talking about. As far as rarity goes, i haven't seen many of these around, infact the only one i've seen for sale was the one that i bought, i've seen other screw polishing devices but nothing like the one i have. Maybe there more common in Germany than over here?

[whiskeybelly]

Hello,

In the video i posted above, he has a D-bed lathe mounted polisher, i think that's the one you're talking about. As far as rarity goes, i haven't seen many of these around, infact the only one i've seen for sale was the one that i bought, i've seen other screw polishing devices but nothing like the one i have. Maybe there more common in Germany than over here?

I've seen these from most of the big German makers- Wolf Jahn, Lorch, Boley, and Boley Leinen. Definitely more popular in Germany and continental Europe than in the U.S.

Horia started producing them 10+ years ago and as far as I know still do (with a hefty price tag).

I have one and wore my hands down polishing many many screws but a few years ago switched back to the simple tripod. I have a little collet holder in my tripod tool, and I find that I polish faster with it. Also, when doing restoration, I find that getting the screw situated in the screw lathe so that the top of the head is flat can be difficult; of course you flatten it regardless with the steel (iron) disk but that sometimes eats more metal than I would like. With the tripod you can adjust to the flatness of the head.

Lovely tools though and I will always keep mine. I made a tin lap for the step normally taken by the wood, seems to keep the head just a little bit flatter.

The little roller on the front arm is to support hand tools when working on the bevel around the screw head and in the slot .

[Paul Loatman]

Hello,

In the video i posted above, he has a D-bed lathe mounted polisher, i think that's the one you're talking about. As far as rarity goes, i haven't seen many of these around, infact the only one i've seen for sale was the one that i bought, i've seen other screw polishing devices but nothing like the one i have. Maybe there more common in Germany than over here?

I've seen these from most of the big German makers- Wolf Jahn, Lorch, Boley, and Boley Leinen. Definitely more popular in Germany and continental Europe than in the U.S.

Horia started producing them 10+ years ago and as far as I know still do (with a hefty price tag).

I have one and wore my hands down polishing many many screws but a few years ago switched back to the simple tripod. I have a little collet holder in my tripod tool, and I find that I polish faster with it. Also, when doing restoration, I find that getting the screw situated in the screw lathe so that the top of the head is flat can be difficult; of course you flatten it regardless with the steel (iron) disk but that sometimes eats more metal than I would like. With the tripod you can adjust to the flatness of the head.

Lovely tools though and I will always keep mine. I made a tin lap for the step normally taken by the wood, seems to keep the head just a little bit flatter.

The little roller on the front arm is to support hand tools when working on the bevel around the screw head and in the slot .

I guess it makes sense that they're more common overseas. Like you said, it's probably a much more affordable idea to just get one of the tripod types than this type.

I haven't heard of Horia until you mentioned them, i was looking at their website and they do still make them, they also have some other very interesting things. For new tools, i think they'd be a very good choice, the prices are up there, but that's to be expected, and it's still a lot less than from Bergeon.

I also didn't know what the other shaft was for, i honestly didn't even know it was a roller, it doesn't spin too easily and definitely needs some oil. Thanks for pointing that out as well.

Ophiuchus,

I haven't taken any other pictures of the tool yet, but i'm planning on getting a newer, much better camera today, so when i get the new camera i'll be sure to take much better pictures for you, i'll give you some of the dimensions too.

[whiskeybelly]

I haven't heard of Horia until you mentioned them, i was looking at their website and they do still make them, they also have some other very interesting things. For new tools, i think they'd be a very good choice, the prices are up there, but that's to be expected, and it's still a lot less than from Bergeon.

I also didn't know what the other shaft was for, i honestly didn't even know it was a roller, it doesn't spin too easily and definitely needs some oil. Thanks for pointing that out as well.

Horia is great! They are the universal supplier of lever and screw type jeweling tools around here. Their quality is next to none. I met the owners some years back, very down to earth guys who are in the workshop getting grease under their nails with the rest of the team everyday.

They bought the Steiner trademark and tooling from Yves Thiebaud in the early '90s and have continued making the lathes, dead center turns, and Jacot lathes ever since. Having used the turns and Jacot lathe in school they were some of the first things I sought out and bought. Just fantastic stuff. The turns are rather hard to find secondhand but the Jacot lathes pop up on Ebay fairly regularly.

Here a link to an article Derek Pratt wrote on the Steiner stuff:

http://www2.horia.ch/htdocs/Files/press ... %20FHM.pdf

[Paul Loatman]

I haven't heard of Horia until you mentioned them, i was looking at their website and they do still make them, they also have some other very interesting things. For new tools, i think they'd be a very good choice, the prices are up there, but that's to be expected, and it's still a lot less than from Bergeon.

I also didn't know what the other shaft was for, i honestly didn't even know it was a roller, it doesn't spin too easily and definitely needs some oil. Thanks for pointing that out as well.

Horia is great! They are the universal supplier of lever and screw type jeweling tools around here. Their quality is next to none. I met the owners some years back, very down to earth guys who are in the workshop getting grease under their nails with the rest of the team everyday.

They bought the Steiner trademark and tooling from Yves Thiebaud in the early '90s and have continued making the lathes, dead center turns, and Jacot lathes ever since. Having used the turns and Jacot lathe in school they were some of the first things I sought out and bought. Just fantastic stuff. The turns are rather hard to find secondhand but the Jacot lathes pop up on Ebay fairly regularly.

Here a link to an article Derek Pratt wrote on the Steiner stuff:

http://www2.horia.ch/htdocs/Files/press ... %20FHM.pdf

Thanks for the link, it's weird that i've never even heard of this company until now. I'll definitely keep them in mind when looking for the sort of tools they produce.

Ophiuchus,

Here's a bunch of pictures i took of the screw polisher. I'll give you some of the important measurements at the bottom.






























OK, here are the dimensions.

The brass collets:
Diameter (widest point) - 5mm.
Diameter (thinest point) - 4.7mm.
Length - 19.85mm.

Steel collet:
Diameter (collet portion) - 7mm.
Diameter (shaft) - 4mm.
Length - 135.95mm.

Spindle (part that holds the collets):
Diameter (point of contact with bed) - 10mm.
Diameter (ridged portion) - 13.65-13.85mm.
Length - 122.8mm.

Bed bearing (point of contact with spindle):
Height - 31mm.
Width - 19.88mm.

Grinding and polishing plates:
Width - 52mm.

This should give you a good idea of the proportions, obviously you don't have to use the same exact sizes if you're making one yourself, one thing you'll notice is the steel collet's long shaft, it's not like a regular wire collet, this is probably because they didn't want to make the spindle too large as a result of a drawbar. The bearing parts look like they can swivel on their shaft but they're very rigid and won't and shouldn't budge under normal use. Also, the roller to be used with files and such has a tapered shaft, not entirely sure why, but it must have been to ensure that the roller itself could be sized to the shaft very easily and accurately, as long as you have the correct degree of taper then you simply have to grind or turn down one end of the roller until it fits snuggly onto it's shaft. I should also add that all of the threaded components use acme style threads, i think it would be a good idea to do that since these components are constantly being adjusted.

-Paul

[Ophiuchus]

Paul, much thanks for going to all the trouble to disassemble and photograph your tool for me, and for everyone else as well. Especially too for taking down even the dimensions!

This is a very neat tool. I may indeed attempt to make one of these now, the design is quite straightforward.

[Paul Loatman]

No problem, if you do make one, you should show us your work.

Now, i have more tourbillon things to show.

I made this carriage holder so i could polish the carriage parts easier.






I also remade the pillars, but i haven't taken any pictures of it yet, i've been too busy and i'm not completely familiar with my new camera yet so it's time consuming to take pictures. I should have them by the end of the week though.

-Paul

[jey66]

What a pity that I really lack access to such specialized things. Sometimes I just get to try making some myself. I've got a friend in the US, maybe next time I could ask her to help me buy some.
Big pity !

[Paul Loatman]

Haven't updated you guys in awhile. I've been working on the carriage and have so far remade the pillars and polished the finished components. I'm currently working on the poising weight and i've redesigned the carriage slightly, but nothing has to be remade for the redesign, it's just a cool little addition.

I don't have anything for the poising weight other than screws made, but i do have parts of the "new addition" on their way to being completed.

Let's see if anyone can guess what this is:




Well, the following pictures might help.

Here it is just after being drilled and the head shaped with a file.



Here it is after the body is turned down to a smaller diameter.




If you haven't guessed by now, it's a hairspring stud and the stud holder. The stud will actually be held in place by a spring lever, which is what's in the first picture.

This means that the upper carriage has to be modified slightly, it's really just a removal of unnecessary material. That removed material will be filled with the new stud holder.

Now, an interesting stud holder like this can't be used on a normal flat hairspring, so i put an overcoil in the spring. If you look on the Phillips Terminal Curve pamphlet that Curtis has uploaded in a stick-post at the top of this forum, you'll see this type of overcoil would be somewhere around the #90. Although, i didn't use the formula provided in the pamphlet.

What a pity that I really lack access to such specialized things. Sometimes I just get to try making some myself. I've got a friend in the US, maybe next time I could ask her to help me buy some.
Big pity !

Well, you have internet access, i'm sure you could just buy this sort of thing off of E-bay, that's where i get most of my old tools from, not all but most.

[Paul Loatman]

More about the stud holder.

Here it is after hardening, tempering and giving it, it's basic shape.






Here it is polished up a bit, the bevels have only been polished to 1 micron and i'm going to go down to 1/8th micron, so i've still got a bit to go as far as finish goes, actually pretty much everthing here still needs to be finished, but i wanted to show everyone how it looks so far.




Here it is on the upper carriage bridge. All i really had to do in order to make it fit was to modify the "cap" which holds the pivot, i simply beveled the bottom rim so it fits the stud holder, the stud holder is slightly undersized so that it has a nice friction fit and can be moved but won't move on it's own. The little sharp points on both sides are so you can easily adjust the position of the stud without putting any tension on the part. Pretty much the same way most stud holders are on older watches.





As you can see, i reshaped the carriage bridge a bit, the hole that used to be there was going to hold a stud holder before i decided to make an overcoil, the reason for this stud holder, aside from the looks, was really so i could move the position of the stud to allow for an overcoiled hairspring, not only in diameter but also in height.

[Christoph]

Hello Paul! Thanks for the new pics! I really like your work, this Topic is the reason why I joined this board! I am also planning my own watch, but actually my project is not further than some thoughts in my head...

I will show you when there is something to show!

[Paul Loatman]

Hello Paul! Thanks for the new pics! I really like your work, this Topic is the reason why I joined this board! I am also planning my own watch, but actually my project is not further than some thoughts in my head...

I will show you when there is something to show!

Christoph,

Thank you! I look forward to seeing your watch. You know, i never drew any designs for my watch, i think it's easier to just jump right into it without worrying too much about the details because you'll have plenty of time to think of things as you work on the key components.

Now, i've been working on the carriage again. I've refined it more and as it is now i should be done within a couple of weeks with the carriage, this includes poising and finishing.

I just finished the lower carriage bridge today and only need to do the frosting on the upper carriage.






As you can all see, the rim of the carriage is now much thinner, i haven't measured the thickness yet, but it's about twice the width of a human hair. So, you can imagine what a nightmare it was to polish it.

-Paul

[Paul Loatman]

Hey everyone,

Here's the upper carriage after polishing and frosting. As you can see, this was also refined just like the lower carriage.




Now, i never mentioned this before and i kind of implied that i would be re-using the pallets from the original ETA movement, but i had planned my own pallet a few months ago when i decided to re-design the carriage, i just now started on it after seeing Hajime's one-piece pallet. So, here it is.





The design is very similar to Beat Haldimann's pallets for his central tourbillon, however the reason why the shank is curved like that is so that the receiving stone can be easily seen when the pallet is together, if the shank is straight the face of the stone is covered up and that makes it difficult to adjust the stone to the correct depth. The shank on the lower pallet is only there for banking, it's still thicker than it will be when finished, i just need to know about how much it'll bank in order to give it it's final thickness, that way i don't make it too thin and ruin it. You can see the staff in the pictures too, nothing particularly special about that though.


-Paul

[Paul Loatman]

Some in-progress shots of the pallet being polished. I think it may be finished, but it's very difficult to clean completely because i'm going for a black polish, i've mostly just been using Rodico to clean it off to inspect as i polish, but i need to get it in the ultra-sonic to see how well the polish really is.

If anyone is wondering how i beveled these, it's simple, i held the pallet part in my left fore-finger and thumb, an arkansas file in my right hand, and i beveled away, no tricks or magic, or even any real thought, and definitely no machinery involved, just good old fashioned handicraft.

[whiskeybelly]

It's all looking just great Paul, very nice work! And you are doing all this without CAD if I recall correctly?

I'm sure you'll do this anyway without my advice- but make sure you don't skimp on the finish of the fork slot. The tiniest imperfection there can cause you all kinds of headaches. And once the dart is in it's a pain to have to go back in there...